In case you've been living in a hole, there is a lot going on in the world of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Basically, these are some whack job people that live in relative isolation, practicing in plural marriages, communities that are self-supporting, suppression of women, the rape of children, and more-or-less imprisoning everybody who is unfortunate enough to be born in the community. Warren Jeffs is their "prophet", and he has been convicted of rape in Utah and is currently standing trial in AZ for eight other charges.
Recently a call was made to a family violence shelter by a girl named Sarah, who claimed to be 16 years old. She said she'd been forced to enter into a "spiritual" marriage to a 50 year old man, who'd since beaten and abused her. Oh, and this girl has already mothered a child.
Thus, the FLDS compound in Eldorado, TX was raided. All the children, 416 of them, were taken by the state. Another 139 women have been reported to have left voluntarily. Since then, the people at the compound have "opened up" to the media. Interviews, tours, etc. "Give us our children back... (sob, sob, sob)"
Okay, let's pause a second and cut through the crap! Nobody has answered a question with a straight answer. "Did you ever witness underage children being married to older men?" "Nobody was ever forced to do anything they didn't want to." Oh, Shut Up! These people are so full of crap and it really pisses me off. OF COURSE they witnessed underage children being raped by older perverts! Of course 14 year old brainwashed girls didn't say no to their "religious leaders"! This is one of the worst communities in the history of man. I hope not one of them EVER see any of their children again. I hope that they suffer everyday thinking about what they put innocent children through. And I hope that when all is said and done, many of these adults are held criminally responsible for these abominations.
Completely different direction, but one that is what I want to focus on here: I really think that this affects the average person's view of our faith. The media is doing a good job of stating that this is the Fundamentalist sect, but they always follow that word with "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". I understand that this is the name of their cult, but I know that people are getting confused. Especially when they see stories like this, where it is indicated that "several copies of the Book of Mormon" were confiscated at the compound, or this AP story, where they call them "a renegade Mormon splinter group". Is it just me, or don't you think that this group is having some negative impact on how the masses view our (already not so highly held) faith?
Bad For Us, Too, Methinks...
Posted by Joel on 4/17/2008
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IIRC, Politicalds has already hashed out the question of the FLDS's impact on public perceptions of the LDS Church. More interesting to me, and I would think of more interest generally on this political site (a site on which I've been chastised for talking religion instead of politics), are questions about the propriety of the raid itself.
Has the government exceeded its authority in this case?
Joel, I understand and share your concerns about child abuse, but the fact remains, if I understand this case right, that a single unsubstantiated phone call touched off a massive government raid that has disrupted hundreds of innocent lives. The question of limits to government authority is a quintessentially conservative question (or at least it used to be). So, again, has the government exceeded its authority in this case? Related question: aren't there better ways of handling this sort of thing?
--David
There has been a series of news reports in the bay area about some phone calls from neighbors about people's pets. Then when the authorities arrive, they find that one person/family has 300+cats inside. Sometimes it isn't cats, its dogs. Variations of the story abound.
Each time the news report concludes that the "owners" are hauled off to jail because of animal cruelty, failure to caretake of the animals in their charge, failure to provide an environment for their pets that promotes health and well-being and healthy stimuli, etc.
In my mind, the government in Texas hasn't acted any differently than the authorities in these animal abuse cases. Each case has a ridiculously large number of abusees and the abusers are held responsible and supposedly will face consequences for their actions.
I hope that these people never get their children back, just the same as I hope the people in those news stories will not get their animals (or any other animals) back again ever.
To me this is kind of like the illegal immigration issue. Is it fair to ask immigration status when a suspected illegal is pulled over for a traffic violation? I say yes.
So it goes with the FLDS, We know they are practicing polygamy, which is against the law. Isn't it OK to take it one step further and investigate child abuse while there on a "polygamy raid", especially when there has been suspicion for quite some time?
I hope that kind of makes sense.
The idea being that we kill 2 birds
with one stone.
Yes, this could have been handled on a smaller quieter level but it wouldn't get as many ratings for the news networks. I also think this large raid will send a clearer message to other FLDS communities that this isn't a joke anymore.
Child abuse can't be taken lightly. I feel any suspicion would be reason enough to enter the compound, but maybe in a smaller, quieter method until proof is found.I also feel there is reason to invade on suspicion alone, due to the fact that this is a culture in which they are not taught what is abuse and what is not.
Matt, I pretty much agree with you when it comes to what ought to be done with these guys, but I thought part of the problem is that polygamy per se is no longer against the law. As long as you are "legally" married to just one woman (that is, as long you've only gotten one marriage license) it's not illegal to shack up with more, nor is it illegal to engage in church-sponsored (but not government-sponsored) marriage ceremonies with them. I thought that's why Warren Jeffs was never charged with polygamy but with accessory to rape and similar charges. Does anyone know the details?
--David
all the more reason why these women shouldn't get their children returned to them...no one should be able to justifiably argue that having all these kids under lock and key and forced into under-age sexual relations is ok.
My husband and I have been talking about this a lot. Something definitely needs to be done. It is wrong to know that teenage girls are being forced into "marriage" and rape without doing anything about it. But, is it necessary to take all the children away from all their mothers and put them into foster care? Will foster care necessarily be better/safer/healthier? If the women see that they have an out of the polygamist sect, can they keep their children and start a new life? Or at least some of their children? Or can the sect be monitored, or the men arrested and the women retain their children?Some of these women were probably teenage brides themselves. Doesn't that make them victims, too? Isn't taking their children away victimizing them twice? I don't have much faith in the foster care system in Texas or in CPS in Texas. I personally know a family who had their children taken away on false allegations. Their children are still in foster care. It is sick and sad.
Also, it is possible that a woman names Swinton made the phone call that triggered this. She has a history of making false reports. If all of these children were taken on a false allegation, that is wrong in and of itself. I know that the sheriff in the town was looking for an excuse to go in. If there is abuse, definitely go in and stop it, but I really think that taking all the children from their mothers is doing more damage than good.
I think that stories like this do damage to the LDS church's reputation. If I were to hear a church called "Fundamentalist", I would think of it as more strict like an Orthodox Jew. If I weren't a Mormon, I would think that the Fundamentalist LDS church is the one practicing the "true" religion, and the mainstream Mormon church is more modern. Maybe it's just me. The story that there is a bed in the FLDS temple that they use to consecrate marriages in makes me shudder - both if it is true and if it is not true. People always speculate the wierd things we do in our temples. The last think we need is more wierd rumors and speculation.
It's just a really sad situation overall - people know something bad is going on, but they're reluctant to just march in and bust up their little FLDS party without some real, concrete evidence or probable cause. Understandably, because a) that's the law, folks, and b) Waco, anyone?
I don't know if these women should have their children until they've been rehabilitated, or gone through some therapy. it's true - I don't think people are exactly lined up to join this particular sect, so most everyone in it is there by birth. These people were raised in it, they are brainwashed. I'm not saying that absolves them, but I can certainly see why they are conflicted and confused. As a mother it's basically impossible for me to imagine under what circumstances I could ever allow anyone to lay a hand on my son or daughter, let alone any of the other types of accusations that have emerged from their "ranch", but people have done some really horrible things under the umbrella of "the word of God" or under the influence of a powerful charismatic leader.
What needs to happen is to get the cult leader and break his hold over these people. Take away his power (and all his evil minions) and the problem is gone, or will be by the next generation hopefully. If the call that sparked the raid was indeed a lie, then I don't know what the legal implications of that are but I'm glad it happened. I just hope it turns out well for the families involved. My heart goes out to them.
Oh yeah - as to the spillover of Teh Crazy onto the "regular" ;) LDS church, I actually haven't seen that. Mercifully, people seem to be able to separate "them" from "us" - I think almost everyone knows a "Mormon" and of course anyone can see that while they may not agree with the tenets of our religion, we are not child rapists, abusers, or a cult. Whew!
well, I think that the fact that all these people are practicing polygamy (whether through one legal marriage and "extramarital" affairs or not) is grounds enough to take the kids away from the parents.
I think that the women of this group are probably brainwashed, and as such are unfit to raise their kids, because they will manipulate and play mental mind games with them in order to get the kids to go along with what they know. A mentally sick woman should not be allowed to keep and raise her kids in this kind of situation. If the women were not mentally disturbed they would have taken their kids and run when given the chance.
I disagree with Amy. I don’t think all the children should be separated from their mothers just because they have grown up in a polygamist colony. This alone doesn’t make the mothers bad mothers. Who is to say a foster mother or foster home would be any better? Sometimes children are abused, molested, even killed in foster care. Yes, children should be taken away from parents who are harming them. But, from what I have seen of CPS, a lot of times children are taken away from good parents and left with bad parents. I am not ready to condemn or judge these women. I most certainly am not willing to call them “mentally ill”. They have not been through due process of the law, and in the meantime, their children are going through all sorts of turmoil. It makes me sick to think that babies and young toddlers are apart from their mothers. They must be terrified. There is a better way to handle all of this. I am not impressed with the great state of Texas on the handling of this situation. Go after the men – the ones who are doing the abusing.
So, yes, Anon David, I do think the government exceeded its authority in this case, and I do think there is a better way. I suspect that someone got overzealous or their ego involved.
The thing that bothers me is the moral outrage poured out on these people. Yes, forcing a teenager to "marry" and have sex is wrong, wrong, wrong, but how much of the things we are accusing them of are fact and how much are assumption? People assume all sorts of crazy things about us LDS. Should we be convicted on their assumptions? Should my children be taken away because some people think our church is authoritarian and that as a woman I have no rights in my church and marriage? Of course, no. That is ludicrous. But are we doing the same thing to the RLDS?
I agree with Stephanie. In fact, some of my reservations about this whole thing stem from my reading about public hysteria about the LDS Church during the 19th century. Yes, the church was practicing polygamy then, and that enough justified a certain amount of non-LDS outrage. But many popular accounts of LDS life were sensationalized far beyond the facts and described women being kidnapped, raped, enslaved, etc. (For a relatively late example of this sort of thing, read Zane Grey's "Riders of the Purple Sage," the classic pre-L'Amour western, in which the bad guys are not Indians but Mormons. Elder Tull and Bishop Dyer are particularly despicable.)
It's possible the same thing is happening now. The FLDS are secretive, and rumor loves a vacuum. How much do we REALLY know about what they do? Sure, they're practicing polygamy, and sure, there are some very young girls who are pregnant, and those things are bad enough. But is it really true that 13-year-old girls are getting raped in the inner sanctum of their temple? Maybe, but millions of people have now read about that even though it's still just a rumor. And those people might someday be sitting on juries for this case. The important thing is to separate fact from fiction so you can handle the situation as fairly and effectively as possible. And fairness is never more necessary than when dealing with a despised minority accused of really despicable crimes.
All that said, I hope the system works ultimately in the best interests of the children (which alas includes many of the mothers as well).
I think maybe the ones who will suffer most from here on out are the older women who, having lived so long holding nothing other than FLDS values, might find it really hard to adjust to "normal" American culture and values--not all of which are superior to those of the FLDS.
--David
Well, who is to say that sometimes these children are NOT abused, molested, and sometimes killed living in these psychotic polygamous colonies?
Oh yeah, and we read Riders of the Purple Sage in one of my lit classes at BYU. Ha! But Zane Gray used Mormons as the bad guys in more books than just that one. Its sensational, therefore it sells.
Well, who is to say that sometimes these children are NOT abused, molested, and sometimes killed living in these psychotic polygamous colonies?
There are lots of children in homes that seem "normal" who are abused, molested and even killed. Of course we as a society need to protect children. That is the purpose of CPS. If CPS works the way it should, it is a good thing and helps children. (I don't actually have much confidence in CPS, though, based on conversations with friends who are good parents who have had bad experiences with CPS). If CPS can take the children away from anyone who might be mentally ill, or who they think is psychotic, or who has values different from the mainstream, where does it stop? When all of our children are in institutional care?
There are lots of children living with mentally ill parents. Unless the parents pose a clear danger to the well-being of the children, the children are left with their parents.
In this case, the pregnant girls themselves are evidence that rape in the name of "plural marriage" is happening on the polygamist colony. I think it would be a stretch, though, to assume there is other abuse going on without evidence. Or to assume that these people are psychotic because they believe in polygamy. In the absence of the leaders and men (who should be arrested and prosecuted) having sex with the teenage girls, I don't think the other children are in danger. I think they are safer and more loved and secure with their mothers than in foster care.
Here's a pretty unbiased article that shows the predicament from both sides.
On one hand, Texas, it seems, is concluding that polygamy is child abuse . . . Every girl in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a potential rape victim and every boy a possible rapist, says Angie Voss, chief investigator with Texas CPS.
On the other hand, But this isn't just about sexual abuse. There is a whiff of cultural imperialism here. This is about further marginalizing an already-marginalized way of life - one person's religion, another's cult. . . "The environment is authoritarian," says Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist who has studied the Branch Davidians but whose knowledge of the FLDS comes mostly from newspapers. The mothers are loving, the children healthy and happy. But their innocence, Perry says, makes them vulnerable, suggestible.
Awakening polygamists' offspring to other options is a laudable goal. But is socializing sheltered children the state's job? The YFZ Ranch isn't the only authoritarian environment in America, so why stop there?
When some of the mothers offered to leave the ranch, find work, get counseling and have no contact with those church elders who like their pick of young girls, Voss and Walther said "no."
After the ruling, an FLDS father, who didn't want to be identified, said: "I think every parent in America ought to go home and hug their kids in case CPS come into their homes and gets them and does this joke of a hearing." . . . Salt Lake City defense attorney Greg Skordas doubts Texas plans to take the children away permanently.
"At some point, those children are going back home. And somebody's going to have to decide whether the polygamist lifestyle is so abusive that a child may no longer live it," Skordas says. "I don't think any judge in America is ever going to say that.
"I don't defend the lifestyle. But when it comes to a time that the state can take 400 kids away from a group home, that's pretty scary."
Thanks for the link, Stephanie.
Re the "on the other hand" part: Personally, I have no problem with marginalizing certain lifestyles, if they're bad lifestyles. The key is to do it effectively and with justice. The country has been trying to marginalize polygamy since the 1850s, sometimes successfully (Woodruff Manifesto) and sometimes not (Short Creek). If the goal really is to end polygamy, we should be looking at the history of our attempts to do so and figuring out what works rather than simply increasing the solidarity of the sect and driving its practices further underground.
I am not defending polygamy itself. I am defending the rights of the mothers to stay with their young children instead of entering the foster care system.
I also think CPS has too much authority. CPS can take children away from a family on an assumption or a tip. When there is a true danger, this is a good thing. When there is not, this itself is a very dangerous thing. It can take years and thousands of dollars (even hundreds of thousands of dollars) for innocent parents to get their children back. In the meantime, some of these children go to homes that are worse than the one they came from. I think the system needs more checks and balances.
If there is ample evidence that the children are living in a dangerous environment, then fine, remove them. I don't think a phone call from a false source counts. I suspect they do have additional information they are not releasing. I certainly hope so, because otherwise, I think this has been a gross abuse of power. Even with what we think we "know" about polygamy, there still needs to be evidence. I am afraid of the ramifications on all of us if the precedent is set that you can take children away from their parents for "ideas" that someone finds authoritative.
wow, this is almost magical - it seems Stephanie, David and I all agree. Very strange indeed. This is an obviously (sorry KWS) sticky situation. Here we have the issue of families called into question - religions, etc. Very strange indeed. I must admit that while reading Joel's original post and some of the comments, I was EXTREMELY upset. If for nothing else, than because of the heartlessness that some of you are approaching this situation with. You are forgetting, this group doesn't only share an acronym with us (LDS) but they share a political history, cultural heratige, doctrinal foundation - I mean their founder was Joseph Smith - they were the same group up util a handful of decades ago. Their great grandfather might be the same as YOUR great grandfather. They seriously are very, very close to us, not some far removed branch of posers. In many ways, I think that they are living Joseph Smith's religion alot closer to the way that he'd have had it lived. They are trying to realize the Utopian Ideal.
IF the allegations are true, which they very well may be, then that is wrong - on the standard of the USA's protestant approach. As an historian, I look to the history of the world and see that this whole outrage as very strange, on three accoutns.
First, 14-15 year old marriages is not a new thing - just an unpopular thing.. I knew a very dear woman, Sister West, who was in the ward I grew up in that was married when she was 14 years old in the Mesa, AZ temple. I asked her about it once, and she said, that, "it was just what we did then." She was 93 when she died about a decade ago. The
"Legal Marriage Age" was imposed...when? Does anyone know? Comperatively very recently.
Next, what about arranged marriages. When did that fall out of favor as a social phenomenon? About they same time that the legal marriage age came into favor. Now I'm not saying that Arranged marriage of teenagers is the way to go. I am, however, saying, that, culturally, in less than a hundred years, this idea went from being the social norm to the worst form of child abuse imagineable. Well, I can imagine worse.
Lastly, Polygamy. Crazy old Mormon polygamists. Well, no one is out there persecuting Muslim Polygamists, Polyanderists, Polyandrists, Swingers, or unfaithful husbands. Some of these are sanctioned, some are not, but the phenomenon is the same - lets face it - LOTS of people have sex with multiple partners.
Here's a question - would any of you like your sunday sacrement meetings raided and all of your children in primary hauled off to courts on allegations of abuse that was a HOAX (the initial phone call was a hoax - that's common knowledge at this point.) This is not Oneida community - these are not a bunch of flower children with unnamed parents - they are marriages JUST LIKE THEY WERE PERFORMED 100 YEARS AGO BY THE VERY MEN WE CALL PROPHETS.
What I'm saying, is try to see this from someone else's perspecive. What is brainwashing? Is being told that your salvation depends on whether or not you donate 10% of your cash increase to a church brain washing? Is convincing young men that the only appropriate course of action for them in their lives is to leave home for two years and testify of a gospel they may or may not believe in brainwashing (on fear of not finding a suitble wife, should they fail to do this). What is brain washing. I think that sometimes we are a very dark pot calling a kettle black.
On another note, I know MANY MANY mothers who are emotionally abusive wrecks that raise their children in our PC version of Joseph Smith's Church, and instead of taking their children from them, we label them (yes, label) as "MOTHERS WHO KNOW" (thank you Julie Beck for a talk that will go down in infamy.) Should CPS come in and take their kids, there would be an outcry. And, I promise that most of those kids in those emotionally and sometimes sexually abusive situations, often turn out better than had they been bounced from foster home to foster home in heaven knows what kind of envirionment.
Amy, you said, "no one should be able to justifiably argue that having all these kids under lock and key and forced into under-age sexual relations is ok." - - But having them under lock and key away from their mothers and families and throwing them in foster homes so they can feel hated and neglected their whole lives IS okay? Sorry, folks - I don't buy it.
As was said earlier, lets pause to Cut through the Crap. The state's actions are simply the over reaction to what ALLEGEDLY was going on there. THe problem is that these people are weird - obviously - they have weird hair styles and dresses - they are quiet and submissive - That is the only thing we have evidence for at this point. So, until we have More evidence, lets not needlessly rip apart families. It is very frusterating that you all, and the rest of the country along with you have already decided that these people are the spawn of Satan and have relegated this sect to "one of the worst groups in the history of the world." I could be wrong, but I think the spartans might have had a worse stance on the question of child sexuality.
Possibly some abuse was going on in certian cases. Lets aproach that on a case by case basis. Possibly some of the members and leaders should be brought up on charges of sexual or emotional abuse - Lets bring that up on a case by case basis. But, there is absolutely NO ground whereby the whole child population of a certain group should be removed.
Now, as to whether or not this will give "US" (Mormons who Know) a bad PR. I could care less. But, For what it's worth, I don't think so. The media has done a great job seperating the two. Kay, sorry for the novel.
I just have to comment on this one statement again, because it has been ringing in my mind. "This is one of the worst communities in the history of man." Really? Do you really believe that? I mean the Aztecs practiced human sacrifice. The Bantu ritualistically ate each other. The Nazis nearly gassed an entire race to death. The Greeks often were murderous homoerotic pedophiles. The Nephites at the end of the Book of Mormon were kind of a sick amalgamation of all of those. And you REALLy think that this FLDS sect ranks up there? Man, not me. Not even on the chart.
Rick, as a self-proclaimed "Mother Who Knows" who loved and identified with Sister Beck's talk, I feel like I should feel a little offended? That's okay - I'm not in the mood to be offended. Besides, we're getting along so well. :)
Rick, my own grandmother got married at 16, which, incidentally, her parents made her WAIT for her birthday to get married. I get the whole under-age marriage thing. Great.
But I also happen to know a few people who have "escaped" from polygamous colonies so perhaps that is clouding my opinion on this issue. These women just had nothing positive to say about the way they were raised. And they joined the LDS church, they had a testimony of the Book of Mormon so religion wasn't the issue. The issue was unrighteous dominion.
From an outside perspective I don't see why the authorities would have raided the colony without the phone call, and I don't see why the phone call would have been made (when calls haven't been made for x amount of years)unless the abuse was real. Hence my stance of not being worried about the kids being removed from the group.
This article is interesting to me for a few reasons:
1. Authorities need to figure that out before they begin custody hearings to determine which children may have been abused and need to be permanently removed from the sect compound in Eldorado, and which ones can be safely returned to the fold.
This both comforts me and disturbs me. I am comforted that some children will be returned to their mothers. I am disturbed that the children would be "returning to the fold".
2. The testing will involve 437 children and possibly hundreds of adults. State authorities revised their count of the children from 416 as they developed better lists and discovered that not all the female members who claimed to be adults were over 18.
3. Parker said he is afraid authorities secretly intend to use the DNA to build criminal cases. But state Child Protective services spokesman Greg Cunningham said: "We're not involved in the criminal investigation. That's not our objective."
Um, what? Then what is your objective? Have I mentioned that I really dislike CPS?
4. The judge also asked the attorneys to look for a Mormon volunteer to help watch over twice-daily prayers after attorneys for the women who remain with young children at the coliseum complained they weren't given enough freedom to hold their usual prayer service. CPS has said it has no intention of infringing on their religious rights but wants to be sure the women aren't conspiring to tamper with witnesses in the custody case . . .Walther suggested that volunteers from the mainline Mormon church — of which FLDS is a renegade sect — might be able to provide monitoring without undermining the sacredness of the services
Why would they assume having a Mormon do it would make a difference? Doesn't seem to me like everyone is differentiating the two like we would hope.
Ricardo, the LDS faith is not "Josephs religion or church".
As far as polygamy, I could careless if people practice it. But it is a law and therefore has consequences. No one is persecuting muslims polygamists because it's not P.C. to tell Muslims what to do. They are slowly taking over civilized countries and it should scare us all.
This raid should have been handled differently. I think this happened because of all the publicity with Warren Jeffs, and Texas wanted in on it.
I suspect other motives may be at play. One is welfare fraud. This compound represents hundreds of children living on welfare as the FLDS "bleed the beast". As a Texas taxpayer, I don't want my money supporting polygamist families. I definitely think the government has a right to do something about that. But, raiding the compound and removing all the children from their mothers goes too far, IMO.
Also, to support the unrighteous dominion Amy is talking about, I don't think the FLDS are all about families. If they were, they wouldn't kick out teenage boys or "reassign" wives and children when someone tries to leave. In their view, the "religion" is more important than the family. As LDS, we don't believe this. People who are married to non-members or whose spouses choose to leave the church are not encouraged to divorce their spouses.
I think it is about concentrated power of a few. They use intimidation and "religion" to coerce. This is why I think the problem would be solved by removing those few and helping the women to leave. Perhaps there isn't a legal way to do that, so going after the men for rape is the thing to do. But, if so, why is it the children who have been removed? Why not the men? To gather evidence? I still think the mothers should be able to stay with their young children.
well, I think that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is trying to make sure that no one misunderstands their relationship with the FLDS church undergoing DNA testing in Texas. I just read this in an article:
On Tuesday, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the mainstream Mormon church, issued a statement in response to earlier plans to ask Mormon officials to monitor FLDS prayers inside the coliseum.
"It would be erroneous to base any request for assistance from members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the basis that our beliefs and practices are close to those of this polygamous group because they are not," spokeswoman Kim Farah said.
The main Mormon church does not recognize FLDS and disavows polygamy.
Good!
I copied this from another blog. I was hoping it was a hoax, but it is for real. You can check the website out at http://www.arrow.org/news/Eldorado1.htm
To me, it is frightening beyond belief (as if taking nursing babies from their mothers didn't already scare me to death). Here is what I copied (sorry it is so long):
I live in Texas and thought y’all might be interested in seeing an email I received from one of the yahoo groups I belong too. It’s not the first one I have received although this one is the most detailed as to what will happen to the children.
Hi Everyone! My sister, _____ is the executive secretary to ________, who is the
Founder and President of Arrow Child and Family Ministries. Arrow found out today that they
will be receiving 80 -100 permament placement children from the Eldorado Compound from infants
to 11 years of age. These are children that will be placed in Arrow’s care for 1 - 2 years.
More than likely, the parental rights of their parents will adventually be terminated and they will placed
in foster homes and/or adopted out. Arrow is an excellent Christian Foster to Adopt agency. I have
met many of the staff and they are very Godly people.
I am so grateful to Arrow for being willing to take on such a responsibility of caring for these children. These
children will be in a wonderful Christian environment. They will be placed at the beautiful Arrow Retreat Center
in Porter, TX. Arrow is in need of many volunteers of short and long term commitments. The current need that
they have is getting the cabins ready for these children by next Monday. CPS will be out to inspect the Arrow
Retreat Center in Porter next Tues. and everything has to be in tip-top shape. These children are use to a very
clean invironment. (They have not been allowed to be normal children and have been made to work and clean
instead of play.) The cabins have been setting over
the winter and are in need of a good Spring cleaning. Ronna and I were out there cleaning one cabin till 9:30 tonight
and we didn’t even get have way finished. There are seven cabins that have to be cleaned. I will be working at
The Arrow Retreat Center all day on Wed., April 23rd. If there is anyone that can donote anytime this week to
help Arrow clean the facilities and help prepare for these children, please call me at (281… . I am helping coordinate this
project. (No training is needed for this volunteer task. Just wear clothing that you don’t mind getting dirty! Bring old rags
and cleaning supplies if you have them.) Teenagers are welcome to help with this project as long as they are supervised by a parent
or responsible adult. I wouldn’t advise bringing childten under the age of 12 because of the cleaning chemicals and labor involved.
Arrow will need many volunteers to do a number of tasks over the next couple of years. From doing laundry, to cleaning,
cooking, shopping, etc… (My understanding, these volunteer tasks would be at your convenience, whenever you are available.)
They are also in need of long term volunteers that would work directly with the children in 8 hour shifts. There are other
volunteer needs as well. In order to volunteer, you must attend an orientation meeting and some training is involved. To
find out when and where the orientation meetings will be held, you may contact Arrow Chld and Family Ministries at
(281… .
They are also in need of donations. I am attatching a list of items needed if you or your church family can help in any way. I know that their current needs are white twin sheet sets , (200 sets) white towels, wash clothes, hand towels and toiletry items. The list will of course change when they find out the needs of the children they will be receiving. They will need pack-n-plays, high chairs, strollers, car seats, diapers, etc. for the babies.
Right now, they are just worrying about the present needs of preparing for these children.
As far as these children’s education goes, it looks like CPS is coordinating with the University of Texas to have a charter school
on site at the retreat center. This will take place in the Fall. Therefore: Arrow will have to build several new buildings for the school.
I am helping pick-up donations and cooridinate volunteers for Arrow, so please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
More than anything, these children need a lot of prayer. Only God can heal the hurt and sort out the confusion in these children’s lives. Please pray for the staff of Arrow that God will give them strength and wisdom to care for these children. Arrow will have to hire around 75 workers to help
care for these children. Please pray that God sends them just the right people to work with these precious children.
Sorry this is so long. Thank you for taking time to read this.
Blessings,
_________
I just wrote a paper on this and my opinion changed as I wrote it. CPS truly followed a policy of guilty until proven innocent, which is a scary policy in any situation but scarier when dealing with what some purport to be "religious" issues.
Of greater concern is the fact that there is still no proof of even one report of abuse. Lots of speculation. A good example is the girls who are pregnant. Was it 31? A very high number but then 26 said they were over 18, but, as CPS authorities said, "we don't belive it". What? So we are still at square one with nothing solid to pin.
The problem likes in the historical precedent that is being set for other cases where maybe there really isn't any abuse and someone just wants to make a statement against a religion, group, or even family.
We are assuming CPS is omniscient in their judgments, that they can make such general statements as, "the children are well cared for" ...even though there are missing children...
It is all a big mess. Should there have been a raid? Probably! Is there abuse? Probably. But let's require CPS to prove it, give us the dates of the reports of abuse, (no, not the ones from "Sarah"), the justification for going in, and then cite at least the bare essentials to the media. No need to threaten privacy, just provide a few dates of a few reports and nature of the abuse. The generalities are not good enough to justify the action.
Elaine
I just read this on a news blog. I thought it was interesting:
"Texas is not prosocuting people in Texas for polygamy. It is prosocuting people in Texas for having sex with minors. I am very strongly against child abuse; however, I think there is a grey line between marriage to a minor where the law has not been clearly defined historically in our country.
I think that marriage is a special entity that exists between a man and a woman. Among other things I think that it is only between a man and a woman because only men and women can procreate.
If marriage is going to be redefined then how is polygamy any different than all of the gay and "straight" people who have sex with multiple people. At least polygamists proclaim to be committed to eachother.
I am personally very happy only having one wife; however, I am also very against the idea of having sex with multiple people.
I can find alot of similarities between all the orgies that happen publicly in San Francisco and other cities around the country and the sects of people who decide to have plural marriage. However, I think that the polygamists are creating safer environments for children than the streets of San Francisco.
What environment leaves children more prone to sexual abuse San Francisco or an FLDS sect?"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080522/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
At last, some common sense
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